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Scrivs Redux

29

On how I was misunderstood, what I meant and what I’ve learned.

My post yesterday wasn’t received very well. Actually, I’ve a gut feeling many people are on the edge of cyberkilling me. Of course, that wasn’t what I wanted at all. I wanted people to know what I think of Paul Scrivens judging at his posts, and specifically his posts on the A-listers. His argumentation was, well, not great. I want people to know what I think, that’s what a weblog is for. I didn’t want to offend anyone, just wanted to point out what I don’t like about the man in a low manner.

I’ve heard some things about why I did this, and more specifically, why I did it like this. I recall me being called jealous, attention seeking and 16. I’ll try to respond to that. Jealous? No, I’m not jealous, I’m just annoyed by his standpoint. Maybe it has to do with some deeply nested jealous feeling, but that’s not my intent. Am I seeking attention? Of course I want everything I write to be read, but seeking attention is something we all do. This post wasn’t an exception, but it certainly wasn’t an attempt at more attention. As Robbert Broersma said, I wanted some discussion, something to think about. Maybe I used the wrong words. Beats me. Someone said that all this was just a 16-year-old’s attempt at getting linked and a prove of weakness. But mister, please understand that I didn’t close the post because I’m afraid of discussion, or whatever you might think. I closed it because the post didn’t have the effect I wanted, and my comment closed the topic.

Now, the weak and probably too late attempt, but Paul: I don’t dislike you, I dislike the way you seem to dislike others. I’m a man criticizing quite fast and overthought, but this post wasn’t written with the correct words. I’ve learned from this, and I shall keep my mouth shut when I’m annoyed once more (in public, that is ;)). I shall use better words, phrasing and do better research. I didn’t know this was your job, Paul. Honestly. I didn’t intend to keep you from paying your bills.

Here I stand, ashamed and disputed. Take your chance and leave it there. (Trolls and flames will be removed :P)

Posted on 2004-11-17 at tea time!

29 comments

  1. Gabriel Mihalache 2004-11-17 #1

    You loose all credibility if you take it back. That’s how it goes... stick with it! If you have to choose between saying something unfair and loosing all credibility I think you’d better choose saying something unfair.

  2. Keith 2004-11-17 #2

    (I wrote this on the previous post, but you’ve closed comments so I’m posting it here.)

    Oh come on Rob. We all know your really Scrivs and your wrote that just to stir things up!

    For real though. It’s like a design critique, feel free to express why you don’t agree with someone or why his words or opinions don’t work for you, but don’t say “I don’t like him.”

    That’s useless, demeaning and ulitmately makes you out kind of trollish, even if your points are valid.

    There is a lot of opinion on the Web, Scrivs is one of the more opinionated and yeah, he doesn’t always know what he is talking about -- but no one does. I’ve often wondered why Zeldman gets the props he does. Sure he has some great things to say, when he posts, which is almost never, but I don’t agree with them all.

    I’d never say that I didn’t “like him” because I don’t know him.

    It’s like saying “I don’t like Stylegala” -- (I don’t really, not sure why) -- who the hell cares what I think? It wasn’t designed for me to “like it.”

    As well, Scrivs doesn’t post for people to like him and I’m sure most people don’t give a crap if you like him either. I don’t mean to sound harsh and I think I know where you’re coming from, but really, it came off as a personal attack and that’s not cool.

    See what I’m saying?

    It’s cool that you clairified your opinion, but really, and I’ve said this to Scrivs before as well, we need less of this negativity on the Web. Feel free to express opinion, hell do what you want, but nobody likes a complainer.

    Peace.

  3. Jeff Croft 2004-11-17 #3

    Rob-

    I can sum up my thoughts on the issue very quickly: I think it’s fine, and even commendable, to not like someone’s work and provide a constructive critique. However, I think to say that you “don’t like” someone (or even “hate” someone, as a commenter said about Dave Shea) based on their work is a little strong.

    But, there’s certainly no hard feelings. You have a nice blog going here and are, by all accounts, a nice guy. Honeslty, I don’t think anyone really cares about this little tiff -- just forget it an move on. Keep on doing what you were doing. All is well. :)

  4. Jop 2004-11-17 #4

    Personally my first thought was the same as Jeff Croft’s: why? But it’s your site, and after all you’re free to post whatever you want, but closing the thread is a shame since you got what you wanted; discussion.

    And this Scrivs guy doesn’t seem to bother, nor is he threatening to kill you (no I haven’t cracked your mailbox so I’m not sure), so I don’t see why closed that post.

  5. Rob 2004-11-17 #5

    Keith, it may not be known to you, but I am known to exaggerate a lot. I know that my arguments weren’t great, and I’ll think again if I ever want to complain. But I know what you mean, and I now know what people thought I tried to convey. I guessed wrong, you know?

    John, thanks, I’ll go on, no matter what the outcome is. Expect some design matters soon.

  6. John Oxton 2004-11-17 #6

    You know how the cliché goes... no publicity is bad publicity... you are just a glory boy and I don’t think I like you anymore... or maybe I am just jealous because of all the big names now commenting on your site! ;)

    (meant with humour!!!!!)

  7. John Serris 2004-11-17 #7

    “or maybe I am just jealous because of all the big names now commenting on your site”

    All the “big” names? We’ll I guess I better say something too then ;) Rob, I was wondering why scrivs was giving us the finger... Stick to your guns and dont back down!!

  8. Andrew Hume 2004-11-17 #8

    Yes - I saw the finger first and must admit I was a little confused. I thought Scrivs had really lost it!

    Still, you’ve had ya bitch fight now - and Scrivs has responded in his own unique way. Let’s leave it at that I say. :)

  9. Cody Lindley 2004-11-17 #9

    The truth is lined in the undertones of those who are defending Scrivs’s character and web voice. In fact if I were Scrivs I might consider getting a new set of friends who can actually offer up some objective truths to support their obvious excuses in defense of a voice that has rubbed not only Rob but others as well in a negative manner. It’s ok to call the kettle black. Its black! In trying to defend Scrivs (comments from the former post) all that I can seem to deduct is the people who know Scrivs best, agree with Rob. However, they admire him for his unruliness, arrogant writing style, and antagonizing demeanor. The fact that someone might admire a man of this nature speaks clearly about the individual doing the admiring. Their comments are very transparent.

    Heck, he himself displayed his true character in his response to Rob’s original post.

    No, Scrivs your not criticized because people are jealous and want to be you. You’re criticized because you might just deserve it! I don’t think I am alone in my decision to turn a deaf ear to his blog and opinion.

    So which is more logical, I’m completely off base here, or there might just be some truth in Rob’s original post as well as others who have chosen to speak out and turn a deaf ear.

  10. Vinnie Garcia 2004-11-17 #10

    Well at least you’re causing a stir in blogland :)

    That’s more than can be said for most of the activity around the web nowadays.

  11. Scrivs 2004-11-17 #11

    First Rob, let me apologize for putting this on your site, but Cory commented so I feel I need to respond.

    I was cool with everything until Cory had to speak. It’s one thing to attack me, but when you attack my friends something has to be said. The finger post was a joke people. I was never upset with Rob and we exchanged emails about it. I wrote an entry saying that these kinds of entries are cool (even though some people would rather have them emailed and not made public). I think that shows my character. I help plenty of people everyday with web issues. That is my character. If you knew me you might think otherwise, but you don’t know me Cory. You know my writings and for some reason they seem to piss a lot of people off. Honesty sucks.

    The funny thing is that what Rob did is no different that what I have done in the past, yet you seem to agree with him Cory. Maybe it’s because he is the underdog, but overtime if he continues to write these things will you be saying the same stuff about him?

    Now for my friends, saying I need to find a new set shows the character you have. Elitism is something I try not to practice because then I end up sounding like you. Arrogant writing style? Unruliness? My friends like me because they know they are getting the real deal. It’s a trust issue. Do you trust the guy who always says nice things or the one who tells you what he thinks?

    I have to laugh at people who assume they know you simply by what is on your site.

    Anyways more could be said, but it won’t because again I hate to do this on someone else’s site. If you would like to continue bashing my friends Cory we can handle this over email, IM, or in person in the future. I don’t mind.

    Anyways, back to everyone hating me. Just leave my friends alone please.

  12. Matthew Oliphant 2004-11-17 #12

    Heck, he himself displayed his true character in his response to Rob’s original post.

    I hate it when people say this. What Paul showed in that post was an aspect of his character. Once again: human, multi-faceted, can be more than one thing.

    I don’t see the above post as taking anything back. And you shouldn’t, Rob, unless you change your mind (which you are allowed to do:). However, you should be open to refining your opinion, which is how I view this post.

    And on a totally unrealted note, would you be willing to increase the contrast between the blues used in this text area? Us old timers are probably not your target audience, so I understand if you like it the way it is.

  13. Cody Lindley 2004-11-17 #13

    Damn that Cory Guy! Who’s that.

  14. Simon 2004-11-17 #14

    Well, Scrivs is being a lot more civil than he was when I criticized his A-Lister post. Lucky you.

  15. Cody Lindley 2004-11-17 #15

    Paul - Often, in my opinion we all need a good dose of a mirror like rhetoric. While I might not have meant all I said in good faith your not the only one that can have an arrogantly strong opinion. My apologies to the innocent parties harmed.

  16. Mike P. 2004-11-17 #16

    This is all great stuff. Face it, we’ve read his stuff, we’ve learnt from him and with him and taught him stuff too.

    Fact is, if someone doesn’t go out there on the edge or wherever Scrivs is :-) and question things, if we all just sit here blowing you know what you know where, well, would we really get anywhere?

    Kudos to people who stir it up a little and aren’t afraid to toe the line...

  17. Mike D. 2004-11-17 #17

    On an unrelated note, I find the use of the “NONE” graphic for the 99% of people who don’t have a custom graphic both redundant and unnecessary.

    Thank you for your time.

  18. John Oxton 2004-11-17 #18

    In defence of the none graphic... yeah maybe it is a bad choice but it is a failing of the gravatar system... I have had to do similar... Get a gravatar dude... it’s not as difficult as implementing sIFR (GASPS!)... I still don’t like Rob though!

  19. Mike D. 2004-11-17 #19

    I don’t believe it’s a failing of the Gravatar system at all. I’ve never used the system myself, but according to its creator, the Great Mojombo, images for non-existing Gravatars return a 1×1 transparent gif by default. If you’d like it to return a “NONE” image, you have to consciously tell it to.

    Either way, Rob e-mailed me and told me he may remove the “NONE” graphic, so the problem is solved I guess.

  20. Rob 2004-11-17 #20

    Yes, I’m trying to find a way to have this done nicely. I want many people on Gravatar, but I don’t like the repetitive image, as it now appears 16 times on this very page. That’s not beautiful, but I’ll find a way. For the time being, why not use a Gravatar? It’s always good to show who you are.

  21. Tim 2004-11-18 #21

    There’s a world of difference between “I don’t like Scrivs” and “I don’t like Scrivs’s writing/writing style/whatever else”.

    The former is an ad hominem attack, and usually means that you’ve lost the argument if you have to resort to it...

    Now, play nice, you hear? :)

  22. Seth Thomas Rasmussen 2004-11-19 #22

    This is better than popcorn!

    No wait, it’d go great with popcorn! And... and... some hermit crabs. Yeah, an arena teeming with hermit crabs. Rob and Paul eye each other nervously/viciously from their platforms mere inches above the harmless, but numerous, hermit crabs.

    A cage lowers between them bestowing large colored combat sticks. (They light up when you make contact.)

    After a grueling dueling, the victor rides off on a moped while the loser is nibbled and pinched to death by the hermit crabs.

    nod

  23. clint | cFA 2004-11-19 #23

    Hey Rob, I dont think you did anything wrong in posting this response at all. I dont think as said above that you lose it, on the contrary, it shows that you have a heart as well as a desire to react quickly, good or bad. I think the less desirable person is the one who makes flippant remarks and sticks to them for the sake of defending a stance. If anything people now have a better idea of the type of person you are.

  24. Jina 2004-11-19 #24

    for my default gravatar (if one does not have a gravatar) i just use a soft-colored gray quotation mark. maybe you could do something in a similar fashion that is not so harsh?

    Anyhow, this has all been interesting to read. I like Scrivs. I like Rob. I like cheese.

  25. Seth Thomas Rasmussen 2004-11-19 #25

    CHEEESE!@

  26. Mathias Bynens 2004-11-19 #26

    Rob, as for the Gravatar “issue”, have a look here.

    As for Paul Scrivs --- I don’t really have an opinion on him / his behaviour against certain people, just because I don’t know him, nor IRL, nor did I ever really read one of his posts. Reading the comments on your posts (and link posts to them) made me feel pretty sad, though. Not only do I not like it when people attack you personally, but using “16-year-old” as sumkinda swear word is just *$%@#.

  27. Fernando Dunn II 2004-11-20 #27

    I don’t get it. Maybe it’s because I came into the theatre late.

    We all disagree with someone. We all have people that we just do not like. I just don’t see the point in offering non-motivational commentary on someone/something. There are very few things that are worst than non-productive criticism.

    And it seems that some of us are doing the very thing that we’ve based our dislikes of someone else on. What a tangled web we weave.

  28. Jina 2004-11-20 #28

    mmm... cheese...

  29. Seth Thomas Rasmussen 2004-11-20 #29

    You can get feta cheese at Subway now. Amazing.

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