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I don’t like Scrivens

Noel Jackson
Rob
Greek to me
Whitespace

I don’t like Paul Scrivens, and that may be my humble and miserable opinion. But I don’t.

Why? He’s such a fine chap!

I don’t think so for a couple of reasons. First of all, he says he’s a good designer. Or well, he doesn’t. Sometimes he does. Sometimes he creates something of which he humbly says that it’s just crap, so every fanboy will say it’s great. And he will admit.

I sometimes don’t know what he tries to convey. The beginning of a post looks promising, and his standpoint looks fair. The end of the post shows that this is a deception. He twists around the subject and his own standpoint, and I most of the time have no idea what his definite opinion is.

“Oh, it’s so hard to have a lot of sites.” “Oh, it’s nothing.” “I maintain a lot of sites, like more than any person.” “Ah, I have no problem in maintaining them.”

This and of course this with a this comment that points out what I’ve been trying to say the whole time. “Yeah, I deserve the money man!” No you don’t.

There isn’t a subject that’s not criticized (yes, even I was!). But please, show us things that are better and proven to be so. You are not superiour, mister. Just make sure that your posts and ‘indications’ are just your opinion.

Matt posted something about this a while ago, and I second him. Scrivs’ comment on that is a bit contradicting and of course dodging.

Some things that I do/did like

For some curious reason, I liked to visit Forever Geek. I don’t anymore. Don’t ask. I do like the CSS Vault, but that could be because that’s not a place for Scrivs to express his opinion. The Vault is an attested concept, and it’s not only one of many galleries, it’s also one of the lesser. Stylegala is a lot better, not only because it’s maintained by more than one person. That’s where the crappiness of the vault lies. I support Stylegala now.

His designs are clean, but maybe that’s because he can’t/won’t design more edgy stuff, or he thinks this fits the case. Either way, he loses. Not flawless, something you’d expect from such a critic.

So, you actually just have an opinion

Yes, of course. I am no trying to pursue anyone to live up to my opinion, I just want to tell you my experiences. And of course my humble opinion.

~~(I’ve closed the comments, because I don’t want flame wars in here. If you want to express your feelings or want to have the comments opened for a good reason, mail me.)~~

Due to popular request (one fellow), I’ve opened the comments. Flames will be deleted.

Posted on 2004-11-16 while enjoying evening coffee.

23 comments

Jeff Croft 2004-11-16 #1

Well, I don’t really have a problem with you not liking Scrivs, but I don’t really understand why you’d post it on the web -- sounds like you’re just trying to pick a fight. What is the point that you are trying to make? Why do we all need toknow that you don’t like him?
Jonathan Snook 2004-11-16 #2

Hmmm, yeah, that’s a tough call. I, too, have wanted to make comment on other bloggers because I’m often baffled by their popularity or point of view. But I’ve always decided against it. Seems like an invitation for a flame war no matter how you look at it.
Robbert Broersma 2004-11-16 #3

For a start: right know (I want you to pretend) I don’t know Paul Srivens.

Jeff: is it really so hard to understand some people would like to use their freedom of speech to criticize others? Assuming Rob has a point, why not criticize this kind of behaviour? Why only showing your feelings by ignoring the things you don’t like? That seems, to me at least, the thing you propose.

Jonathan: don’t you think the audience of this weblog is wise enough not to start a flamewar, but a interesting discussion instead? I definitely do think so, and in my humble opinion the first three comments on this weblog entry don’t prove me wrong.
Gabriel Mihalache 2004-11-16 #4

I’m pretty indifferent on the whole discussion on Scrivens’ content and opinions. What I do care about is the fact that the blog environment has matured enough to include more than fan-boyish material. Criticism is good, especially when it’s well documented.

So, if you bloggers out there want to write anything but link descriptions and praises to the living masters of web design, something like “constructive criticism”, it would be great if you would follow the example of zooibaai.nl :-)
John Oxton 2004-11-16 #5

Brave post...
Mike 2004-11-16 #6

Haha, man I love controversy within the blog community, keeps things lively :)

I think Paul might come off a little coarse at times, but that’s just his way, he likes to talk about things how they are without sugar-coating. As Jeff knows, and as anyone who is friends with Paul knows, “dancing around the topic at hand” is definitely not one of his strong points. He’s blunt. He’s got no qualms about telling you what he thinks.

As for design, I know that he’ll be the first to tell you his designs aren’t amazing, the guy doesn’t even consider himself a web designer. He’s an internet businessman. He is the busiest person I know, writes constantly, is always tinkering with his stuff in an effort to 1) make the content better for his readers (over a mil a month), and 2) make it more lucrative.

It comes down to this: all his web work is his job so making money at it is a necessity, not just a luxury. When some people say he’s selling out, that’s all bullshit cause he’s got bills to pay, and if he doesn’t then he’s out on the street. Ya gotta show him some respect, he works hard.
Jeff Croft 2004-11-16 #7

Rob and Robbert-

To be clear: I don’t really object to this post, I’m just not sure what its intent was. If it was simply to vent, rant, rave, etc. that’s fine -- a lot of us do that on our personal sites. If was to pick a fight, that’s fine too -- as long as you’re not picking a flight with me, go right ahead. :)

I was just requesting some clarification about what the goal of the post was, that’s all.
Mike D. 2004-11-17 #8

Ah, but controversy is the spice of life! For instance, your ragged link underlining is awesome, in my opinion. However, others may think it looks like horse shit.

I also don’t particularly care for the God reference in the header, but hey, maybe it’s inspiring to some. It’s a controversial thing to put on a site, but it’s your site so you can do whatever you want with it.

Scrivs is known to spread a little controversy wherever he goes, but that controversy also gets people thinking and produces positive results at times. For instance, Scrivs’ fantasy football team this year is atrocious. When I was watching him draft, I kept saying to myself “Wow, that’s a terrible draft pick”. But watching those picks got me thinking how I could make my own team better. And now it’s the second half of the season and while Scrivs is 3-7, I’m in 1st place at 8-2. So you see, you don’t have to agree with him personally to benefit from his existence. He stirs the pot... it is up to you to make something of what emerges.
Jeff Croft 2004-11-17 #9

In other news, that bitch Mike D. will do anything to brag on his fantasy football team and belittle others’, including inventing an opportunity to do so when one doesn’t present itself.

I’m thinking about posting an “I don’t like Mike Davidson” entry on my blog. Whatd’ya say?!

:)
Mike D. 2004-11-17 #10

It should be pointed out that Jeff Croft is in 3rd to last place in his own division, and platoons Jeff Garcia and David Garrard (?!!!) at quarterback. ‘Nuff said. :)

Unfortunately, the schedule didn’t allow Jeff and I to play in the regular season this year and since he’s not making the playoffs, we won’t be meeting there either. Damn!
Jeff Croft 2004-11-17 #11

It should also be pointed out that this league has twenty, count ‘em TWENTY, teams, which makes is damn near impossible to have a stud at every position. See you in the playoffs, Mike. :)
Scrivs 2004-11-17 #12

Not that it bothers me that you wrote this because we need this openness on the web, but I don’t know why you would wish to write something like this. However it should definitely help you get some traffic if someone links it.

I read it, but am a bit confused so you will have to forgive my stupidity. You linked to an entry where I say I am a “good designer” yet in the entry I say:

Without the CSS Vault 80% of you probably wouldn’t even know I exist. My designs for my personal sites are simple. That’s what I do. Would I add them in the Vault. Nope. I enjoy design, but I enjoy other aspects of the web more and I think that it shows.

Maybe you can help me out on that one.

Next.

Yes it is hard to run a lot of sites (my own decision so I’m not bitching), but it’s not that bad because I love what I do. Only time I have a problem maintaining them is when I am not working on them :-)

Next.

Now for the money issue I again read the entry you linked to and couldn’t find where I said I deserve the money. I did say it would be cool to get paid for what I do though. Again, my ignorance overwhelms me so I will need your help. But to say that someone doesn’t deserve the money is kind of silly. Athletes don’t deserve that money. I do work that I think I deserves money which helps put a roof over my head and take care of people that I don’t speak about on my blog. But seeing how you are 16 I remember being carefree and not having to worry about those things so I can understand your perspective.

Next.

Did you notice that I give criticism and receive it as well? Did you notice that I give credit where credit is due? This might be a case where you are just focusing on one type of post. Selective reading. Again my ignorance more than likely.

Next.

As for the rest where you say my sites suck and that Stylegala is better, everyone has their opinion :-) And I do believe Dave just recently added other posters to his site, but you make it seem like he has been letting a group of people select who gets in from the beginning. Heck, I still think it’s just him who decides who gets into his gallery. But I admit that his design is prettier than mine.

So overall I like to see people openly communicate like this. I don’t understand most of it, but then again you are talking about me so maybe I am doing selective reading of my own.

Why am I popular? Fuck if I know. I just like having fun and I used to work hard. Bad habits I have now.

So really this post just comes off as someone who hates the fact that Scrivs is more recognized name than Rob. Work hard and you will get there as well man then when someone writes the same about you maybe you will understand my perspective. Cheers.
Mike D. 2004-11-17 #13

Can I just say one more thing: SIZZLE!
Scott Johnson 2004-11-17 #14

Am I having a nightmare? Or am I really reading a slashdot thread?
Dante 2004-11-17 #15

We all have people we hate. I personally don’t like Shaun Inman. There was a time when I hated Dave Shea too. His “Proton” design only strengthened this hate.
Vida Blue 2004-11-17 #16

Scrivs Rocks!!!!

I’m not sure what your point is. There must be other people you don’t like as well. Are you devoting posts to them also?

Get a grip man. It’s not like Scrivs is some evil multi-national corporation. He’s entiled to his own opinions (just as you are). And he’s only human (I think).
Lance E. Leonard 2004-11-17 #17

Honestly, you really didn’t express yourself very well. I don’t get a real sense for why you don’t like Scrivs.

I figure you’re like me, jealous. Before you get all hot and bothered saying “NO WAY! I’m NOT JEALOUS!” read my extended thoughts on my blog.
Mike D. 2004-11-17 #18

Okay, two things:

1. Scrivs actual is an evil multinational corporation. His real business is selling shards of glass to small children. 9rules is just the holding company which launders the profits.

2. Dante: How can you hate Shaun Inman? Are you kidding me? The man’s skillz are legendary. As for both him and Dave, don’t hate the people because there is something about their sites you may not like. I didn’t particularly care for Proton either but the amount of good Dave (and Shaun for that matter) has done for this industry far eclipses any stylistic differences you may have with them.
Noel Jackson 2004-11-17 #19

Is this him? http://9rules.com/whitespace/our_thoughts/professionalism.php

“Oh boy” if so...
Noel Jackson 2004-11-17 #20

Rob, you could call yourself Robivens. And that would totally be cool... ;-) Then that whole “Rob isn’t as cool as Scrivs” argument would be null and void.
Rob 2004-11-17 #21

Paul, I didn’t know your situation, but still you have to admit that it’s a no-go bitching at A-listers. Now you could say I do the same to you, but it’s in the fashion you’d do it and did it, actually.

The Stylegala-bit, well, that’s just throwing mud :P

But seeing how you are 16 I remember being carefree and not having to worry about those things so I can understand your perspective.

Again, I couldn’t tell it’s your job.

Selective reading: well, you could call it that way, but that doesn’t mean that those posts don’t matter, cause they’re in good company.

Luckily, you admit the fact that everyone has an opinion. It’s what I blog for, and you too (I guess, as you express it often).

And all the ones out there that think I’m jealous: no, I’m not. I envy the big bloggers because they have their names, but I’m working on that. I’m in a process, and I can’t be jealous at the people who were and are now famous.

Paul, I just wanted to reply to your A-lister flaming in a manner that would suit you. But apparently, people don’t get it. I leave it at this.
Greek to me 2004-11-17 #22

Scrivs controversy

Rob doesn’t like Scrivs. I can understand that, and I’ve had my moments that I didn’t like him either (he doesn’t seem to like my designs, while I don’t like some of the stuff that he does put into the Vault --- but that’s life). In the end thoug...
Whitespace 2004-11-17 #23

The Real Web

Some people don’t like me and feel it’s okay to write about it on their websites. Bravo!